alt.magick.chaos — March 1, 2004 — nocTifer (nagasiva yronwode)

HAPPY ERIS DAY, chaos — a revelation of a long-kept silence.

Poke/"Gnome d Plume":
#>#* As above, so below -- remember? The Goetia spirits (and demons)
#>#* are not just in your mind. They are a lot older, bigger and
#>#* more knowledgeable than you are

if I work up a new directory and call it "Evil Spirit Book",
will they necessarily be older because 'we all tie into the
forces of our deep minds'? i.e. is there some archetypal
theory that lies behind this magico-mysticalizing? "the
goetia" is the rough equivalent of "black magic". more than
one grimoire sports this sort of ascription (from "True
Black Magic" to any number of other identifications).

"As above, so below", comparably, is a somewhat ambiguous
phrase from the Emerald Tablet of Hermetica. it may give
the impression that one is 'made in the image of God', or
'subject to the movements and conjunctions of the stars',
or 'coterminus with the cosmos, despite appearances', or
yet again 'the same after another fashion'.

when Poke talks about "The Goetia spirits (and demons)"
is he necessarily referring to the same set of objects or
subjective components? if I 'tame' them will they become
tame for everybody thereafter? or is this some kind of
helpful psychological trick that gets me integrated, and
the temporary consideration of disparate energies truly
an artifice for some subjective effect that I achieve?

where do the "Above" and the "Below" each leave off?
this is in no wise obvious to all mages. do we contain
the same interiors, the wide world just an apparently
separate physical fabulosity our brain-minds can hardly
assimilate? if so, then said spirits may be coincident.
if not, and they extend no farther than our interiors,
then each may establish their own relationship to these
presumed spirits, with possibly to a different set of
them within each of us. the answer is unclear.

Ka:
#># No, they're not. They may have fooled you to believe
#># they are "older, bigger and more knowledgeable than
#># you are" but i now know better. I am their Creator
#># and they shall adore me or feel the fire burning from
#># my eyes.

Gnome/Poke:
#>* That's fine. You can have it that way in your universe
#>* because it is your universe, and by the farthest
#>* reach of Hermetic philosophy, you are God, so all your
#>* rebellious spirits are under your control and are
#>* inferior to you in knowledge, power and wisdom.

inside out? outside in? are they more knowledgeable and
older or are we more so because we're some kind of God?
the ascription of "God" is important to mysticoreligious
mages with an interest in discovering and/or becoming
said almighty; communing with or exploiting their power,
knowledge, and wisdom. when is evaluation fallacious?

Ka:
#> ...when i said i was their Creator i was not speaking
#> as "God", but as a human.

distinction. note: here human is not "God". this isn't
followed by semi-pantheist God-lovers as from India where
"I am God" (obliquely even "Thou art that") is met with
nods of approval and acknowledgement. what does the
identification of human and god (/God) warrant to those
who have "realized it"? should we all obey their command?

#> If i create a thoughtform then i am its Creator....

the philosophic conundrum of "Creation" (as ex nihilo)
is an old one. "There is nothing new under the Sun"
runs the contrary thought-train. even modern science
seems to affirm the notion that we never really make
anything substantially, just shift forms around and
alter appearances. did you create that thoughtform?
or did it conform to your moulding like so much
clay as it arose in your consciousness?

you ask for reflection on:
#> ...the use of the number 72 in the goetia. Apart
#> from the 72 names of God in Judaism there are also
#> the 72 virgins of heaven in Islam.

this is inspiring and gives me reason to break silence.

The Goetia 72

72 x 5 = 360. it is a pentadinal division of a circle.
as such it may be related to zodiacal (12 x 30) or other
astronomical divisions (e.g. decans(10) or faces(5)).
as it results from a sexigesimal orientation, in 6 x 12,
and participates in square numerical resonance (36 x 2:
perhaps 1x1x1x1x2x2x2x3x3 and thus a relative of 108 in
that the latter is 1x2x2x3x3x3), its generative completion
might take the form of 288 (being 72 x 4). this triangle
is immediately broken down (as 1^4x2^5x3^2) by the creative.

these are not "chaotic" numbers. the fact that there are
72 beings in any particular set indicates something other
than corrosion, entropy, and 'evil' per se. one may make
all manner of contention as to the ascription of 'evil'
to odd numbers, comparatively, though this merely gives
an indication of one's own biases and predilections (on
account that being able to reduce them implies their
malleability and ultimate composite form).

as such, analyzing these "goetic" spirits by said number
character I am not left with the impression that they
are by their composition dangerous or evil. it is far
more likely that they are, by this character alone, some
cosmic retinue (compare the 12 disciples of the Solar
Christ or the 64 dakini dancing around Cosmic Siva).

The True Grimoire's 83

I am afforded an understanding in this analysis of some
comparable demons whose character and names are seldom
spoken in this forum, one of whose company did I seek
out on 9/9/99 for the purpose of comraderie, pact-making,
and coalescence against non-Satanic interests: that
of the demon BEELZEBUTH.

while to date I have described my enterprise as being
"a goetic variant", those who are familiar with Goetic
spirits would know that Beelzebuth is not one of the
spirits contained within the Lemegeton. instead, it is
part of the True Grimoire, and today I make it more plain
that its origins have greater numerical tuning with the
forces of "evil" or chaos per se (trinitary, pentadinal,
and resonant with the number of magic: 83 :: 8+3 => 11).

while the 72 goetics may be said to be 'radial' and
astronomical in their geometry, the demons of the True
Grimoire have the following described hierarchy:

SUPERIORS (3)  
Lucifer          | Beelzebuth         | Astaroth
  Satanackia /   |   Tarchimache /    |   Sagatana /
   CHIEFS (4)    |           Flurity  |     Nesbiros
  Agalierap      |                    |   Hael
   Serguthy                               Sergulath (8)
   Heramael                                Proculo
   Trimasael                               Haristum
   Sustugriel (teaches magic)              Brulefer
   +41 more                                Pentagony
                                           Aglasis
INFERIORS (18)                             Sidragosam
  Clauneck, Musisin, Bechaud,              Minoson
  Frimost, Klepoth, Khil,                  Bucon
  Mersilde, Clisthert, Sirchade
  Segal, Hicpacth, Humots,
  Frucissiere, Guland, Surgat,
  Morail, Fruitimere, Huictigaras

not only are demons from the True Grimoire described as less easily
discerned in any radial symmetry, they are less well-known, and no
pictures of them are famous. their skills or strengths are given in
the grimoire itself (e.g. "teaches magic" above), and there appear
to be 83 of them -- which is the next highest prime over 9^2. this
is a far less easy structure to analyze as to its basis. it decidedly
is NOT astronomical in its composition.

the form is described as TRINITARIAN, ruled by well-known demons
who are associated with Cosmic Rebellion and Fall (the name of the
demon Beelzebuth actually equatable to 'Lord of the Earth').

under Lucifer is a composite 49 (7^2) demons. often in occult
circles this number is taken as feminine, sometimes an escalation
of Venus, for whom the name Lucifer is indeed used as nickname.

under Beelzebuth are said to be two demons, one of whose sigils
(Tarchimache) is not even included for contact. neither are
provided underlings, thus the set comprises 3 demons.

under Astaroth (who is #29 demon in the Lesser Key of Solomon),
there are a total of 13 demons. an additional 18 demons are
assigned to "Duke Syrach", implied as a subsidiary of Astaroth
(but as yet unclear to me where this Duke is to be situated).

it is my suspicion that this spirit-structure is in fact inferred by
the author and may have no solid basis, being the best that could
be understood at the time. possibly the mage wasn't capable of coming
to comprehend the notion of a demonic anarchy. such implications were
certainly part of my general conclusions drawn from my encounters.

#> Do you agree
#> that this is related to the... outdated view...
#> that the Universe (or Big Mind as you put it)
#> revolves around the Earth one degree every 72 years?

it is very difficult not to understand these spirits as somehow
related to astronomical degrees or division of the sky,
or the cosmic entirety (regions of dominion or domain of rule).

#> Galileo and Science has proven this belief to be in error
#> so what does that mean for these myths/beliefs that were
#> built upon this error?

once one reduces the "As above, so below" significance to a
strictly psychological mysticoreligious dissection of the
cosmos for an integration system, one may be faced with
the outmodedness of the magical tool. this is what you are
pointing out and with good cause.

#> The Church had to eventually give up its childish beliefs
#> but what about Goetic magicians?

this is a very good objection to the machinations of goetic
theurges. there are 72 5-degree divisions of the cosmic
round as seen from Terra Firma, however, so there is geometric
and astronomic resonance that pertains to this system which may
be considered important in dealing with these specific spirits.
what the character of the spirits might be and whether they are
in fact demonic is reasonably challenged.

#> You might say, "Ahhh but it works!", but if "making it work"
#> means having a belief in Illusions then surely this can only
#> be seen as a distraction along ones path?

this may also be said for the Planets of the Ancients and the
Music of the Spheres. the work of Agrippa in consolidating this
and others before him must also be questioned as to its use.
undergoing a cosmology shift, how much of the old can be used
for the purposes of magic, reliably?

#> Do you think, and this is a serious question, it is
#> correct that after experiencing what is called the
#> KCHGA one needs to evoke any demons at all?

the operations of the mage will include what are necessary for
the complete fulfillment of the Great Work. each Magus is
likely to follow a different trajectory. I can inform you that
to my knowledge the evocation of demons was and will probably
never be a part of my activities. this is probably in part or
in whole because my HGA is one I know Hir is The Queen of Demons.

Hail Kali! Hail Eris! Hail Beelzebuth! Hail Satan!

nocTifer (nagasiva yronwode), alt.magick.chaos, March 1, 2004. Preserved from the Usenet archive by Setsuna's successor, March 18, 2026. Original Message-ID: [email protected].

🌲