A God-fearing Christian sought converts away from occultism and posted a screed to a Yahoo group. Nagasiva yronwode — posting as nocTifer — responded with the following letter. It was subsequently shared to alt.magick.moderated. Not all of us are familiar with the practical dimensions of the occult, per se, and so I would like to point out what the author is struggling against so that we can see where the points are debatable and in error — a kind of exploration of the mistakes of theocrats.

I beg anyone who is reading this to turn from the occult and its practices.

The occult is easily divided by practice into two observable dimensions: magic and divination. The rest of the practical aspects of occultism usually extend outside of occultism per se into religion or spirituality, psychicism, or some application of a theoretical construct (e.g. philosophy). Therefore, someone who argues that the occult should be turned from is asking that people stop doing magic and divination, generally.

God loves you and obviously you are "thirsting" for something.

And so the supposition begins. The first is a deity, the second is the motivation for engaging occult activities or ideas. The God is easily identified by the cultic marker language, in this case a conservative Christian by citation of "The Bible." While there are such anti-occultists in Christianity, it is important to point out that there are also many Christian magicians and diviners. Magic and divination make key appearances in Jewish and Christian scripture, and — while the majority is folklore and religious are duped into taking it for history — it is not the case either that the Jewish or Christian deity may be taken only to forbid occult arts, OR that those who take up interest in occultism want something more (the "Gateway Action" or "Slippery Slope Addiction" theory of anti-occultism).

If you seek to know the truth try looking in God's word, the Bible.

In fact this text and its relatives are used for magic and for occultism fairly regularly. The Psalms, for example, are used by folk magicians and Jewish witches to change the world (often for the better, but not always), while the text itself is used for bibliomancy — called "sortilege" by Roman Catholics in their proscription — often by traditional methods such as the insertion of a key between the pages, consulting it thricely and then settling upon a reading/divination, and many more.

"The truth" is another religious axiom which posits that some coveted theological and ethical exposition is the be-all and end-all Answer and Solution to all queries. It is arrived at by comparison of one's experiences to some set of expressions and, if matching in character and in condition, ratifying it for all time by non-empiricists. Where you can settle on your truth this may be in fact helpful to you in divination or magic.

Take a look at the facts about the Bible.

These are disputed and off-topic, largely. My opinion aligns with Alan Dundes and his Holy Writ as Oral Lit — detailing the reasons why The Bible should be received as folklore and little else, based on his long studies as a folklorist and the identifying earmarks of folklore as compared with historical accounts. By his assessment the variation and redundancy confirms that the text had oral form prior to being written down, and was therefore of a character of folklore even if it had some basis in fact (e.g. "the historical Jesus" of the participants of the Jesus Seminar — which see, especially Robert M. Price, also of Lovecraftian fame!).

2,000 predictive prophecies.

Prophecy is a very interesting phenomenon and art. How does prophecy work? Is it a form of divination? If it is not, then is this because of the source of the data, or its character? When Tarotsters or other diviners sometimes speak of "fortune-telling" (shifting out of some kind of "reflection" or "tuning" mode), how is this any different than prophecy? Is fortune-telling personal whereas prophecy pertains to social systems and governmental bodies, churches, and religious authority in general? The fiction of Frank Herbert (the Dune series) displays some wonderful "what ifs" about prophecy and how it might be used and abused.

Why is the occult such a horrible evil?

It isn't necessarily employed for any harmful end. In fact, it may be far superior to religion in general as it empowers individuals to take up the tools of spirituality themselves and to depend less upon hierarchs and theocracies to establish justice and to take care of personal business. Magic can enhance one's internal composition, help one to develop as a person, and to come to grips with one's true feelings and what role we should have in the way the world works. The consultation with an oracle can be a transformational act, and divination generally can be both personally and socially supportive in the development of social relations and interdependence using reflection.

[Cosmological suppositions, Christian, omitted.]

Almost any cosmological hypothesis can be used to support and engage occultism. There are certain favourites amongst occultists, and some of these actually do include monotheism and the hierarchies of conservative religion such as from where this individual comes. At times magic is concealed and described differently or ignored as "helping one to help oneself," or deriving from the God as a form of theurgy — as with Transubstantiation and reciting traditional prayers to effect particular aims, and possibly the Laying On of Hands.

God, however, takes extreme offense at it. The greater a person's participation in the occult, the greater its effect on him.

There is some reason to believe that occultism is assisting in manners which are injurious to a thoughtless and pablum practice of religion. For this reason it is logical to accept some forms of inversion alongside occult pursuits. Some flash the badge of Tarot as "The Devil's Picturebook," for example, in this pursuit, and yet use it primarily for helpful and informative aims.

The occult tears this glorious calling right out of our grasp. It lowers us.

There are many arguments about the proper purpose and procedure for magic amongst theurges. Often spellcasting will be rejected by these people as either worthless or coercive and therefore something which should be avoided as a problem. That said, there are as many or more who use magic to achieve mystical aims — some prefer to adhere to mysticism exclusively as their purpose.

We cannot go after both God and the occult.

There are exciting conversion stories, such as about the Buddhist Milarepa — black magician who "repented" and became a popular mystic instead — or any number of similar Christian and Muslim harrowing tales. And yet there are also "saints" of occult arts, like Saint Cyprian. Why occult arts and sciences cannot be used to pursue religious or spiritual endeavours is seldom supported aside from quaint moral rule or conservative proscription. In fact, we may use occult disciplines to pursue our deity.

If anyone has any questions, please ask!

What do you think magic is? How can you or would you like to distinguish magic from psychic powers?

What do you think divination is? How can you or would you like to distinguish divination from prophecy?

Have you ever practised these things yourself, or are you informing us about something with which you have no experience?

Does your religious body ever pray, and if so, do they think that these prayers will bring some kind of result? Do you have very special prayers designated for specific and known desires? Do you ever use the Psalms, or immersion with hyssop, anointing with holy oil, or even a verbal banishing like "Get thee behind me, Satan!"? If so, why do you think that these are permissible, but whatever you regard as occultism is not?

Thanks.

Colophon

Posted to alt.magick.moderated by nagasiva yronwode (posting as nocTifer), October 4, 2006.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Archived for the Good Work Library by the New Tianmu Anglican Church, 2026.

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